You don’t own it. You lease it. Read on…
We’ve been using the Rosetta Stone Spanish software for a couple of years, but not as much lately so we decided to sell it on eBay.
My listing was pulled after a few days. No message, no alert. Just gone.
Guess what… YOU CAN’T SELL IT
When I emailed eBay and asked why, they said “With regard to your item, your listing was removed because BSA (Business Software Alliance) (US) reported that the listing infringed intellectual property rights. Because BSA (Business Software Alliance) (US) is the verified rights owner in this case, we’re required to remove the listing.”
Obviously, I emailed BSA. Their reply:
“We, at the Business Software Alliance, act on our member companies behalf. They provide us with criteria to use to determine if an auction should be referred to eBay.
Your auction was shut down because Rosetta Stone’s products are copyrighted and unauthorized reproduction or distribution is illegal. In addition, Rosetta Stone’s End User License Agreement expressly states that the license to use this product is non-transferable.”
So, be advised. When you buy Rosetta Stone software, you will NOT be able to resell it without breaking the law.
Sound silly? Email Rosetta Stone and tell them.
{ 43 comments… read them below or add one }
debbie 10.14.08 at 1:51 pm
I am considering buying it as it seems to be the best. So I investigated the information you and others are concerned about regarding resell and it seems that legally users can resell it - as it is not illegal to resell it. BUT if you attempt to resell it on a website like Ebay or Amazon then it won’t go thru as those websites have ‘agreements’ w/ Rosetta to pull those items. So- you can still resell it to someone in person or garage sale etc. Is that your understanding also? Also w/ version 3 does that allow to place on 2 pc’s?
Ron 10.14.08 at 1:56 pm
This is directly from Rosetta Stone:
“Can I sell my used Rosetta Stone Software?”
Reselling a used copy of Rosetta Stone would be an infringement of our copyright. Rosetta Stone software is licensed, not sold. A buyer purchases a license to install and use the program, not to sell Rosetta Stone software. These terms are set out in the End user License Agreement, which prohibits distribution to a third party.
“If I can sell a used copy of a book, why can’t I sell this software?”
Unlike a book, software must be supported by Rosetta Stone. Your license purchase entitles you to the ongoing skilled services of our customer support staff. We make this costly investment to serve our licensees while using the best language learning software being sold today.
“I bought this exact item from eBay. Why was that not a problem when the seller was selling it?”
It was not a problem provided the seller was Fairfield Language Technologies, the owner of Rosetta Stone copyright, or an authorized reseller. Otherwise it was a problem because your seller was infringing our copyright. There are two primary ways copyright may be violated. One is by making or selling a counterfeit copy. If your set was not a “complete version,” i.e.. did not have the User’s Guide, Curriculum Text, and original box, it is very likely a counterfeit copy even though it might look original to you. The other way a copyright may be violated is by sale or distribution without authorization by the owner of the copyright.
“What if I have a new, unused, unopened copy of Rosetta Stone software? Can I sell it on eBay?”
This would be an unauthorized sale in violation of our copyright, unless you are an authorized seller.
Frank 11.07.08 at 11:15 pm
Forget buying it, just do an advanced search on google for rosetta stone containing all the words “complaint”
What about forming a private club and charge a $5.00 membership to each member and buy rosetta stone in the name of the club and that way all members could have access to it? Sign up 5 million members and screw rosetta stone just hire a full time interpitor. Plus that would cover all other software the members wanted to use. I don’t think BSA has authority over software bought by a private club for it’s members. Have a nice day. The CEO
Will 02.04.09 at 10:08 pm
If I buy a copy on ebay that has never been installed before, but only comes with the CD-ROMS will it still work on my computer?
Live Truly 02.13.09 at 12:15 pm
Mine just got pulled too. It was a present that stayed on my shelf for the past couple years. Too bad. =(
I’ve been happy using Anki (http://ichi2.net/anki/ and I think it does a great job. It has an online sync, so you can study anywhere. There are plenty of decks in many languages on its website. It’s also spaced repetition, so it might be more efficient then Rosetta Stone. The only bummer is that I haven’t found a multiple user plugin, so I have to make a separate deck and change the sync info if someone else wants to use it on my computer.
Thanks for the post. I hope potential Rosetta Stone buyers keep this in mind and maybe go with a more open product.
Cheers,
B
Belinda 02.14.09 at 10:10 am
I also tried to sell my Rosetta Stone on ebay, and it was removed. My brother who is an intellectual rights lawyer told me that Rosetta Stone’s policy about resell is legal but very controversial. I would not have a problem with their policy if they let you know about it before you buy the program. The first time a perspective buyer learns about the policy is when they actually try to install the program. The program is not that great anyway. I speak different foreign languages, and every language has things that make it difficult. Rosetta Stone teaches every language the same way. If you are learning Russian for instance, you would need to spend more time studying the case system, and if you were learning a romance language, on the other hand, you would need extra practice with the subjunctive. Rosetta Stone does not acknowledge those differences, and that is way many linguists do not like their programs.
Gayle 04.10.09 at 5:50 am
We are looking for a used Rosetta Stone product to purchase, but obviously we can’t find such a thing on Ebay or Craigslist. Is there something in the software that would prevent another person from actually using the program on a different computer, or is it just the BSA issue? If we could actually use the software, I would be interested in talking with someone on this list that would still like to gift their program (for a price) for my 6yo daughter to use.
Nyikesa 04.14.09 at 1:52 pm
Wondering why they particularly targeted me….also had mine removed ~ maybe because I started the bidding low ~ they hate competition. I will find a way to resell it ~ somehow! I am unemployed. If anyone is looking for the French Rosetta Stone Level 1 ~ let me know!
Jennifer 05.17.09 at 7:32 pm
Hello. I was thinking about selling my cd of Rosetta Stone as well, but when I was looking at all the sets on sale on ebay I noticed that none were private party. I started looking into it and saw this site….I think it’s ridiculous that you can’t resell a cd, you can resell an xbox…what’s the difference?
Lynne Finnerty 05.20.09 at 8:22 pm
The same thing just happened to me. I’d never used the software so had no idea that this restriction existed until my ebay item was delisted. I would not have bought the thing if I had known I was stuck with it, and I will be sure to tell everyone I know NOT to buy Rosetta Stone software.
diane 05.28.09 at 9:21 pm
I purchased rosetta stone italian almost 6 months ago, I loved it, but I would never sell it, I completely recommend it to anyone who is interested in it… you ONLY get 2 downloads, so it is kinda pointless to buy a used version, you’d either be paying for only half of it, or a worthless one… but if one of your friends wants to split the cost with you to put it on their computer, what’s the harm in that? I do understand why you cannot sell the software, but that shouldn’t deter anyone from purchasing it in the first place… it works… ciao
Jeje 06.13.09 at 2:07 pm
Wow, some of the comments leave me speechless… First of all, RosettaStone offers you 6 month UNCONDITIONAL return policy. If you are unhappy with your product or whatever, just return it and get a full refund. If 6 months are not enough for you to realize if you like it or not, you should be learning reasoning instead of a language.
Second of all, have any of you bought a licensed Software and then resold it?! Learn how the industry works.
Best,
Jeje
Alexa L. 06.21.09 at 9:03 am
I’ve also had my Rosetta Stone sale pulled from ebay, and I think this whole thing is pretty ridiculous.
Lisa 06.25.09 at 12:33 pm
Hello,
I would like to start up a virtual language school in addition to tutoring, and I was thinking of leasing Rosetta Stone software, has anyone done this before? Is it possible to lease for commercial use? And how much would it cost?
Thx for comments
TM 07.16.09 at 9:38 am
Mine was pulled this past week. There were several others identical to mine, being sold by families after they were through with it, without ever being molested by BSA, Rosetta or eBay. I agree with another poster; maybe my opening bid was low and it was a flag. Meanwhile, about 50 others go by unmolested. Go figure. If anyone is interested Tell Me More language programs allow you to resell their product as long as you clean it off your machine before reselling it. It’s also just as effective and it costs less. You might consider their product, instead.
I have no prob if a company “leases” their SW, but they need to state this up front before you buy, not in a check box. I bought mine about 8 yrs ago and since so many others were selling theirs I thought nothing of selling mine. It says to buy and purchase, not lease on their site. ?? Also, when I bought there was not 6 mth return policy. If I’d known I couldn’t sell their expensive package, I’d not have bought it to begin with…which is prob why they don’t tell you up front.
CANDIE 07.21.09 at 12:44 pm
I was thinking of buying the Spanish. But didn’t want to pay all that money for it. Now I know why I couldn’t find a used cheaper version. That is crazy that they’ve priced it so high that single parents can’t offer our children langue choices, or just to support what the public schools offer to give a more complete education.
In addition I would like to learn Spanish myself for work since I’m a customer service rep and talk to a lot of Spanish customers.
Langdon 07.25.09 at 5:34 am
I wouldnt go near a product that costs a fortune and yet you dont own it - such a greedy corporate model. Amazed that it is even legal. Bet there is a lot of traffic in it on torrent sites….
EH 07.28.09 at 3:01 pm
Jeje: Google the phrase “right of first sale” to familiarize yourself with the reasons why Rosetta Stone’s EULA is unconscionable. They’re running a gambit in order to force sales, but it would never hold up in court. Microsoft has already proven this.
JR 08.01.09 at 8:12 am
EH,
The bare facts are that it is a copyrighted licensed work. Without copyright protection, Rosetta Stone would make one copy, the rest of the world would copy it, end of product. The current model encourages people to make products, not just have “something for nothing” people pirate it. I own a copy, and came to this site because I wanted to see if I can sell it. I’m disappointed, but I understand why I can’t.
Ron 08.01.09 at 12:54 pm
This is not a Copyright issue. I don’t think the software is copy-protected. The should change the terms of the EULA so that the copyright can be transferred.
portunol 08.05.09 at 5:53 pm
Look I buy a book, I read it, and I can resale it. Same for a CD, etc.
One should be able to buy this and resale it, just like anything else.
The fact that you can’t for whatever reason, to me is an abuse to the general public. Most precisely on a product that allows “learning”.
I agree is a greedy corporate model.
Im disppointed rosetta stone can get away with this in this country, or any.
Y 08.05.09 at 7:40 pm
JR,
No, the bare fact is that you bought a piece of software, and you ought to be able to transfer your ownership rights to that piece of software to some other user down the road, just like you can with a book, a CD, or a car.
What they’re trying to do is take away rights from you that you would have in any other purchase, by saying you haven’t really bought anything, you’ve merely “licensed” it. Since they write the license, they can dictate whatever terms they want, even terms that are incredibly unfair to the consumer, even if those terms give them powers undreamed of by the sellers in other kinds of sales transactions.
For instance, they can write in there (and maybe they have) that they can deactivate the software whenever they’d like and that you have no recourse but to buy a new version at retail price. Fair? Doesn’t matter.
Or, like here, they can make it impossible to resell. Something that by default you can legally do with any copyrighted work.
What’s really interesting is that they claim that reselling is illegal, even if you haven’t opened the box. Presumably, if you haven’t opened the box, you don’t even know what the license says, but they’re claiming you’ve still agreed to it.
This is just bad manners, and consumers should revolt against this type of thing.
danny beano 08.06.09 at 12:34 pm
i bought a reduced price Rosetta Stone from Craigslist and it worked fine for me. keep looking they are available.
Mike 08.13.09 at 11:37 am
There are a ton of these on eBay. Am I going to get ripped off?
Kelly 08.26.09 at 10:14 am
I , too, did not realize their licensing trap. Just had my listing pulled off BOTH eBay and local Craigslist. I’m going to relist and remove their Brand name…see how that goes. In the meantime, anyone want Level 1 Russian?
Misty 09.16.09 at 9:53 am
I talked with Rosetta Stone just now and asked them about buying a used version. He told me that once the activation code has been used on 2 computers it is useless. So how will you know if you buy a used product, if they have installed it on 1 or 2 computers. You might get lucky but is it worth the chance.
zozexo 09.18.09 at 12:07 pm
so, what’s up with the ton of rosetta stone postings on e-bay. should they all be removed?
Dave 09.23.09 at 1:13 pm
This is insane!
I bought a Rosetta Stone set just the other day. However, i wanted to return it since i found out the ’scam’ that you couldn’t sell it to anyone else after you had finished with it.
It is in perfect condition. The only thing is that i removed the sellotape in order to get to the CD’s. THEY WILL NOT GIVE ME A REFUND!
This is a complete scam!
David 11.23.09 at 2:35 pm
Not olny is it insane - but IT IS NOT a copy right violation. Case law upholds this.
Search “first sale doctrine”.
Here is a brief from a case in WA State:
http://www.arentfox.com/publications/index.cfm?fa=legalUpdateDisp&content_id=2179
It seems like the same thing - Software companies try to disregard the first sale doctrine by saying you did not “buy” the software - but you bought a “licence”. Thus you cannot re-sell the “licence” without thier permision.
The only problem - EVERY COURT CASE has rulled otherwise.
So - Rostetta stone CAN take down the auction… AND YOU CAN SUE them…and probably win.
Looks like a nice class action lawsuit if you ask me…
ARRRR….. - I wish I was a lawyer…
Quan 11.24.09 at 1:15 pm
I ran into the same problem here listing it on eBay. I like David’s idea … I think we need to file a class-action lawsuit!
SEO 12.09.09 at 11:34 am
I have always wondered why you can’t find them discounted!! now i know
Rhonda 12.29.09 at 6:12 pm
I was looking to purchase a used copy of the irish program. Your forum was very informative!
Thanks
Jake S. 01.01.10 at 1:25 pm
I bought a legit copy from someone and now I am legally prohibited from using it? I also bought another copy from RS directly. In all, I’ve bought three copies, two from RS and one from a colleague who bought it legitimately.
This is a ridiculous policy. Knowledge of this policy has removed whatever moral qualms I had about buying pirated copy, which are aplenty, even though I may not personally do it. I will not give grief to anyone who does.
Carl 01.12.10 at 11:20 am
Dave - Unless you bought this 8 years ago as well, this isn’t Rosetta Stone’s fault, but rather the retailer you purchased it from. Take it up with them for not continuing RS’s six month, unconditional guarantee by buying direct. Research your options before making a large purchase.
It’s not like it’s more expensive to buy direct… they price match and sometimes even have promotions and offers that no one else does. Check out your local kiosk and ask about the specials. Again, research!
Also, there is one license with two activations, but they can be deactivated and then installed on another computer. You’re not actually limited to two computers.
Donny Kurnia 01.22.10 at 1:52 am
Well, that’s EULA. You have decided to agree when installing it, and all it’s term ‘can be used against you’
Richard Gadsden 01.22.10 at 3:33 am
Actually, no, that would certainly come under the Unfair Contract Terms Act and be struck down, especially in a business-to-consumer, non-negotiable contract like an EULA.
Michael Ekstrand 01.22.10 at 5:23 am
Preface: I am not a lawyer. Do not construe this as legal advice.
The “violating our copyright” angle is a blowing smoke IMO. It isn’t a violation of their copyright. It is a violation of their license agreement. Big difference - one is copyright infringement, the other is breach of contract. Copyright infringement is prosecuted much more strongly, but that doesn’t make this copyright infringement.
Further, I believe that a lawsuit in the last few years involving AutoDesk, makers of AutoCad, established that used software can be resold even if the company “prohibits” it under the Doctrine of First Sale (which says, so far as I understand, that you’re allowed to dispose of a lawfully obtained copy of a copyrighted work as you see fit). The big thing with the Autodesk case is that the court said “if it looks like a sale, it’s a sale”, even if the company calls it a “license”.
Keithius 01.22.10 at 6:40 am
The First Sale Doctrine is well established for cases like this - you CAN resell software, even if it is “licensed” to you.
Of course, who’s eBay going to listen to - you, a single buyer, or the BSA? And the BSA (which should know better) is obviously going to listen to Rosetta Stone but not you.
So in this case, although you are fully within your rights to resell the software, you kind of are subject to bullying from the BSA and Rosetta Stone simply because they’re bigger than you and can therefore get away with it easier (after all, it’d be hard and expensive to take them to court to get a ruling to force them to acknowledge your right to resell the software!).
A sad state of affairs, to be sure.
Zachary Bedell 01.22.10 at 10:09 am
Just wanted to chime in on the AutoDesk issue. There’s a write up (from 2008) on Ars Technica about the AutoDesk case.
Short story: Same exact issue as you. eBay seller shut down for trying to resell AutoDesk software. AutoDesk lost & the judge affirmed the right to resell software regardless of what the EULA says on the subject.
IANAL, but you might want to refer both the BSA and Rosetta to a copy of that ruling and suggest that they adjust their policies lest they end up on the wrong end of a similar suit. You can legally resell the software provided you destroy any copies in your possession and transfer all articles related to the application to the buyer. Any attempts to prevent you from doing so are an illegal infringement of your rights under the First Sale Doctrine of copyright law.
janine dell 01.28.10 at 6:46 am
i was looking to try and find an irish version of the R S in the library and yes i couldnt get one , Now i know why, cant see the problem in this as €400 or so is alot of money to pay out without trying it out, and rely wanted and needed to buy a good coures that it says it is but ill never now know
joe 02.02.10 at 12:35 am
Um, in keeping with the rules of this site, would someone like to discuss with me the prospect of using my Rosetta Stone Spanish (Latin American) Levels 1 & 2?
-Joe
d@platicus.com
Annie 02.02.10 at 10:13 am
Does anybody know anything about brainfindbuy.com? I received an email from them under “Rosetta Stone Resellers” and am wondering if they are legit…
Darnell 02.22.10 at 1:54 am
How do I become a authorized reseller of Rosetta Stone?